Que vaina dice ahi?
It's nice that someone has made a lengthy rant post against what I said, but there are some things that I definitely need to point out, both relating to what I said and the rant.
First off, let me just say that you have, without doubt, have gotten quite a few misinterpretations, or wrong ideas, from one sentence that I posted:
For starters, and this may turn out to be the main flaw with your rant, I said that I'm definitely not a fan of recent 'idols' who usually get more fame and nice treatment than they deserve, as in I believe there are some famous people out there who I believe deserve the treatment they get, and thus I don't dislike. Don't generalise that I think all 'idols' are undeserving of their current fame and happiness.Originally Posted by Lightnin!!!
You should have taken another look at what I said before jumping to conclusions, because the statement, that you're pointing out to be incredibly stupid, was not my exact statement, but a fabricated version of it (intentional or not).
As fore-mentioned, I don't dislike everyone who becomes famous, or is famous, whether they quickly hit fame or not. I will admit that fame and fortune is hard to control, but not completely uncontrollable. It's when that person in question lets the fame and fortune get to their heads that they start to lack even more control over how famous (or in worse case scenario, infamous) they become, or how much fortune they gain (or, again, in worse case scenario, lose).
And yes, no one is the God of popularity or money, but I never proclaimed, or meant to imply, so.
How famous someone is isn't purely due to other 'fans'. It depends on what the actual person does as well. If anything, see the person in question as the independent variable, and the fans as the dependent variable (the variable that changes depending on what the independent variable is, and does).
You're correct about people not gaining fans in an instant, and everyone has free will, but that doesn't mean everyone who uses their 'free will' uses it in a way that's deemed acceptable or fair, therefore you can't just go and say 'there is a little thing called free will, everyone has it, and everyone uses it' as if everyone can go and do whatever they want, and it's no big deal, when, in reality, the things that some people do out of 'free will' isn't acceptable, thus why there will be people, such as myself, who will criticise/ scrutinise people who do 'unacceptable' things out of free will.
In this case, some if not most 'fans' of famous people don't even bother to look into what their 'idol' is really like, and just worship them based on shallow reasons, rather than being a fan of them for exactly who they are, which is one of the reasons why I believe most famous idols get more fame than they deserve: they're hailed for something they truly aren't.
Even if it's something that cannot be controlled, or only controlled a little, it is not something that should be simply ignored or overlooked.
Also, I did not say, or meant to imply, that I 'hate' them. I dislike them at the most. There aren't many things that I truly hate in general, just frown upon.
As I mentioned previously in this post, some if not most 'fans' are only fans of idols for shallow reasons, and not for who they truly are. Most idols get nice treatment, from some/ most fans, for being seen as something they aren't, or just being seen from a simple aspect, rather than for who they truly are. If all of those supposed fans were to take a second look at who they're 'worshipping', find out what their idol was truly like, and see past the simple aspect of them, then there would be quite a few famous idols who would go down in fame and possibly fortune as well. In this case, with Carly, you might be right. She might be one of those idols who deserve the treatment she gets, but:
'That I know of'.
This implies that there's a chance that Carly may not be exactly who she appears to be. Sure, out in the open, being recorded and photographed by the media, she may be kind and considerate to her fans, but how do you know she hasn't done anything that would be considered 'a negative' on her part, that she'd rather hide so her fans don't look down on her?
However, I will admit that there are definitely worse 'idols' out there than her.
This is where what you've said starts to become ludicrous.
Don't twist what I said. I did not say or imply 'being nice to people is a bad thing'.
Don't generalise that I'm not a fan of people who are famous, and definitely don't generalise I'm not a fan of people who are treated nicely, because that is unbelievably wrong, because (and I'll restate) I'm not a fan of most famous idols, and I, without a doubt, do not dislike people merely because they're treated nicely.
And in case you believe what you 'imagined' to be correct, in no way was I trying to be cool by hating on a popular artist. Why do you assume that just because I state my own opinion on how I don't find Carly attractive, and dislike her, it means I'm hating on her 'just because she's popular' in an attempt to start a bandwagon effect?
I'm also wondering where you even got the idea that I dislike/ hate people who are treated nicely in general. Maybe I should be the one asking you what you've been drinking?
Yes, there is misplaced hatred without a care, but there's also misplaced fan-dom without a care. Also, 'it's about respect', 'it's about love' is a pretty optimistic way to see it, considering what the reality is, and how there are some people who actually have valid reasons for disliking or even 'hating' a famous idol or their music.
I suppose I won't deny that misplaced 'love' is nowhere near as bad as misplaced hate though.
Perhaps a bit too bluntly, you've put it. While 'hate' is something that's usually frowned upon, there are bound to be at least a few artists out there who warrant hate for one reason or another.
In terms of the music itself, I do believe it's nice for an artist's piece of music to be appreciated for the message it carries, and for people to appreciate it and listen to it, no matter who's it is, but in the case of the artist him/ herself, what he/ she does with his/ her music and how he/ she treats their fans, that's a different matter.
I think you're being a bit too optimistic. Fame, while I believe it's something various idols don't truly deserve, is hard you control (or in your view, not controllable at all). This means that the fame she gets could easily fluctuate or just change overall, maybe for the better? Maybe for the worst. I'm not necessarily saying Carly will be one of those idols who suddenly drop in fame, but I think you'll find that a fair few famous artists have dropped in fame over time. It's like the saying: 'What comes up, must come down', though I admit there are exceptions.
Hold up. You said that idols such as Carly don't deserve any hate, or artists in general, yet you say you hate dubstep and Owl City? What's to stop someone from telling you that dubstep doesn't deserve any hate? Or that Owl City doesn't deserve any hate? Because while 'dubstep' and 'Own City' aren't a particular idol, the music that those two examples consist of are also made by artists, who may want people to listen to their work and appreciate it. Perhaps they would feel it was unjust for you to hate their pieces of music, just as you felt it was unjust for me to dislike, or supposedly 'hate', Carly? Not to mention you said previously that music is all about respect and love... guess that's out of the question.
'Ignorant'. What's preventing you from being considered ignorant, judging by the various misinterpretations and wrong ideas you gathered from my post? Not being aware of the fact that you've made one or two contradictions here and there, and even twisting what I said, for one reason or another, thus avoiding what my post may have meant. And, if you check what I've said previously in this post, I don't merely 'dispense kindness', as if it isn't an important factor. However, this post definitely made me think: look at the big wall of text I've written in response to your post.
There is one more thing that I find it necessary to mention though. What I said may have been blunt, and I, in fact, may have gotten the wrong impressions of Carly; she could well be one of those exceptions who deserves the fame she gets and embraces it, in which I apologise for not realising this, but there's also quite a few things that you, yourself, have mentioned that were inaccurate, based on misinterpretations/ wrong ideas gathered from what I said, or just plain absurd.
I'm aware that I've probably gone into the subject too much and overdone it, but I felt it was necessary to point out and elaborate on what I believed was incorrect in your argument, but also one or two parts that I myself made a mistake on.
If you, personally, feel that there are still a lot of errors in what I said, then bring it out in the open and criticise it, so we can get closer to resolving this 'conflict'.
I dont know what to say, shes cute, but i wouldnt say she's hot.
But you, mr, are hotLOving the pic, make me laugh
Dead to the world.
BIG POST WARS, GOO!!!!
h
Why you guys mean to Carly Rae Jepsen. ;-;
Shades of colors are all I see
Shapes and colors are all I feel
Roses are red, You better get ready.
Bend your ass over, UR GETTING SPAGHETTI
It would never happen, but wouldn't it be funny if this thread became as extensive as DGE
It started with a whisper, and that was when I kissed her
And then she made my lips hurt
I could hear the chitchat, take me to your love shack
Mamas always gotta backtrack, when everybody talks back
Actually seeing someone's nude pictures doesn't make you love him/he; it kinda makes them a bad profile.
And she didn't reveal her nude pictures, she got hacked.
@pinky
the nudes were fake
Well congratz you just got banned.. Age liar.. Somebody is a little to young..
Look who's talking.
I wouldn't be surprised if 90%+ of people who saw my post TL;DR'd it. For all I care my post might as well be a 100 page book. What matters is whether or not the person I'm going against reads it.
I think the song is funny it's just Herr she is annoying
I think Lightnin!!! might read all of that, and make another incredibly long post which I wouldn't bother reading either.
Well if that happens then, chances are, I'll make another long post in reply to it. It's nice to have big debates/ arguments from time to time as long as it doesn't involve too much flaming and the such.
To clear this up, I only used your comment as a basis, I was actually going to make a thread on this, and it was going to be much larger, and go into detail on certain things I think about when it comes to music, but I figured, "Hey, it's late, I've got work tomorrow and I don't have the time", so I condensed it and made it a response here, as opposed to just a rant-thread.
Right, to begin the reply, the sentence read, "I'm definitely not a fan of recent 'idols' who usually get more fame and nice treatment than they deserve".
And in short, it came across as you saying, "she is getting more than she deserves", as if she were able to control it.
And I used that as a basis.. Those were your words, they weren't twisted, but some ideas were expanded on to encapsulate people who hate on certain artists in general.
Ok, in short, you believe that certain people don't deserve happiness and fame, and some people do, I get that.
But as I said, who are you to decide who is famous and who isn't?
Who are you to decide who is happy and who isn't?
Everyone gets what they deserve, and they deserve what they get, it doesn't matter your opinion on the person, they've worked hard to reach a certain point, you've got no right to say "I don't like them, they shouldn't be where they are today".
As you mentioned, you do believe some people are "deserving" of their fame and fortune, if so.. How do you gauge that?
As the saying goes, "All men are born equal", in short, everyone is the same, everyone deserves to get as much happiness out of life as possible.
I know of very few artists that let fame "go to their heads", as you put it.
Carly isn't one of them, I read her Facebook and Twitter, like a socially awkward penguin, and in all the photos, or the posts, there is a genuine air of, "This experience is amazing, I love everyone who got me here".
I mean, there are people who are in the music buisness for the sole purpose of making money, being the best, etc.
I mean, take Emerson, Lake and Palmer for example, here is a quote from Ozzy Osbourne (yeah, my sources are awesome), "If you don’t have a sense of humour when you’re in a band, you end up like f**king Emerson, Lake and Palmer, making eight-disc LPs so you can all have your own three-hour f**king solos and who wants to listen to that bollocks?".
In short, each member of the band is in it just to have their own time to shine, they wont work together.
And take someone like Carly, has she ever said, "Right, dudes, lets cut the crap, no more Call Me Maybe, I'm going to sing My Heart Will Go On, and I shall win an award for my performance".
Nope.
The implications of the statement, "I'm definitely not a fan of recent 'idols' who usually get more fame and nice treatment than they deserve", are exactly that, "I'm not a fan of people who are more famous, or are treated better, than they deserve", it's something the artist can do nothing about, hence you're hating them for something that is uncontrollable, and that's the reason I pointed it out, it's really not a stupid point if you look at what you said.
The amount of fame one gathers IS purely based on fans, there are no other "variables" you can put it that will change fame.
Yes, you might have someone who can afford multimedia advertisements to get their music to the masses, but what is that doing?
Getting fans.
And if it isn't getting fans, what is it doing?
Nothing.
Believe me, there is no secret to becoming famous without fans, I mean, take Daniel Sloss, he's an amazing comedian, why isn't he selling shows across the globe, because he doesn't have as many fans as Micheal MacIntyre for example.. Really, that's all it is, fandom is everything, and that's why everything is, "for the fans", no matter how mushy that sounds.
I didn't say, "people shall do whatever they want", I said "everyone has free will".
They don't equal each other.
People CAN do what they wont, it doesn't mean they SHALL, and it doesn't mean there SHAN'T be consequences.
However, we're talking about free will as in, "they're free to like who they like", there is NOTHING, NOTHING, unacceptable about that, and I don't see why you see it that way, that'd be like me saying, "How can you even be a fan of Dubstep if I hate it".
The world doesn't revolve around a person, it revolves around the sun, in a delicate balance of wibbly wobbly timey wimey.. Stuff.
Well there is such a thing as, "idol worship", and whilst I don't agree with it, it's there.
And I myself get mad at these sorts of things too, like when Miley Cyrus covered Poison's "Every Rose Has It's Thorn", every Poison fan and Miley fan battled it out in a "My leader shall win!" fashion.
But no one is "hailed for something they aren't", that's subjective.
People can see anyone in anyway, I can look at.. Jackie Chan and say, "That guys a role model for sandwich makers everywhere", and you can't say that is false, because everyone can see anything as they please.
I mean, you saying, "What, you can't say Jackie Chan is a good sandwich maker, he isn't", is entirely based on your opinion, it's subject to change, it's subject to scrutiny, etc.
That's my point, peoples thoughts, peoples feelings, cannot be controlled, opinions are the most powerful things in the universe, next to friendship and all that jazz.
Nothing can destroy opinion.
Again, hatred is down to opinion too, I mean, hell, hate what you want to hate, but just respect their reason for being, I mean, I detest Owl City, I will rip on their music, but I'll never say, "They don't deserve x, because I say so".
I said, "That I know of", because, simple fact, I'm not Carly.
And I'm not Carly's stalker either, I can't know, and that's why, away from prying eyes, everything is down to speculation, Carly might actually be an evil space monkey who controls the whole universe, but we'll never see this, and it's the same for every other artist, you can do all the research possible, but at the end of the day, if something isn't public, you'll never know, so it's a bad point to bring up, because it's something that can't be proved or disproved.
So you can take this chance, in the end, Everybody's gonna be wondering how you deal (whoa), You might say this is Ludacris, But Taio Cruz tell her how you feel.
Sorry, every time I hear, "ludicrous", I just think of that song.
Anyway, moving on.
I was simply making an assumption, and yes, I admit it was a bit extreme, but there are people who think hating artists is edgy, and from what I pulled from, "some people don't deserve the nice treatment they get", I got the impression that you thought certain famous artists aught to be treated poorly, and that's straight up mean, so I decided to blow it out of proportion and suggest that if you lived your life by that statement, you must be mad.
Again, I was making a generalisation, many people think, "Hey, I'm so edgy because I listen to underground and hate pop music", when its just utterly ridiculous, and I decided to blow up that statement by suggesting that it's what you thought, just hoping and praying that you'd say, "I'm not like that".
And I'll say again, I blew this "nice" thing out of proportion to make you think about the connotations of the statement you made, I'm glad you agree with me.
Here is a list of what I've drank in the past couple of days, hope you enjoy;
Strawberry and Banana Milkshake.
Apple Juice.
Water.
Fanta.
That is all.
In short, you can hate an artists music, but don't hate their motives, their message, their being, because at the end of the day, they're doing what makes them happy in an attempt to spread that happiness, and that is truly a touching motive, one that should resonate with everyone, in short, it's respect, it's about feeling the love behind the music, about enjoying that.. And that's the reason I can enjoy things like Justin Beiber, or Rebbecca Black, because I can look behind the music, and just see someone having fun.
There are a few people indeed who warrant hate for whatever reason, Kanye for example, for being disrespectful to another artist, but that is him outside his music, and while he is hating on Taylor's music, he is in no way hating on Taylor.
Music is much like a persona, it's a facade of determination you wear to go through various things in life, music is the shell of an artist, behind that shell, is a person like you or me, just having a good time, trying to spread the joy, and if they can do it, kudos to them.
It doesn't matter if they're singing metal, or rock, screamo or pop, they're doing what they do because they like it.
I mean, take a look at Iron Maiden, behind the whole "metal" thing, their is some truly amazing writing, I mean, just look at Coming Home, lyrical masterpiece, but again, behind this metal facade, is just another person doing what he loves to do.
I think that was a big tangent.
I don't believe in the phrase, "what goes up, must come down", it's not true, nothing ever needs to end, feelings are prevalent in everything, from the humble hedgehog to the hateful.. Umm.. I think I've exhausted my supply of words beginning with "h", forgive me.
Point being, nothing needs to stop suddenly, things can go on forever, it's just that nothing has made it that far yet, because forever is infinite, when GnR said, "Nothing lasts forever", I don't think they realised that forever is in fact endless.
I did say, "It's a bit rich coming from me", but I have also said, music is a facade, it's respect for the artist, doing what they do, that should be the driving force, in short, artists deserve all the respect possible for that they do, it doesn't necessarily mean you must like what they produce, not one person likes everything, that's impossible, just as one person cannot hate everything.
In short, whilst the headache inducing sounds of Dubstep and Owl City are like pins in my ears, I can respect them as artists, because clearly, there are millions of people who like them, and I applaud them for that, everyone is different.
I didn't say it was, "unjust" for you to dislike Carly, we've been using Carly as an example, but you said, "I feel most idols don't deserve what they get", and that's what I've been targeting, not whether you like or hate Carly, if that was the case, this dispute would be settled in one sentence, "Ah well, I like Carly, she is a lovely girl, you're entitled to your own opinion, just don't hate her as a person, because she is actually very nice".
End of.
(Went over the character limit, continued in next post).
Remember what you said about being a friend now?
The movement in her hips strikes the hour when the poison sets in
How do you wake?
How do you sleep at night?
Remember what you said
There is absolutely nothing preventing me from being considered ignorant, I am a tiny, insignificant, ignorant, bit of carbon, I have one life, and it is short, and unimportant, but.. I have an opinion, and that's what matters, I'm going to use it.
I've addressed the kindness thing, things that were blown out of proportion were hopes for a reaction, because I didn't want to believe in it.
And I've not twisted what you've said, I've kept the definitions, simple changed the words, made you think about what it is you said in the single sentence.
And again, don't forget that your comment was only a small base for a huge rant I had bottled up.
Thanks for writing back, I was worried this was going to get buried, and you'd never see it.
There are a lot of things I say that are.. How shall we say.. More poetic, than philosophical.
But it's really just flavour, it pulls you in, makes you think about a meaning, makes you think, not only does it help me think on the subject, but it helps you think on the subject, instead of, "if you go up in a rocket, you're going to reach the stars, and once you've seen the beauty of the wide world, you'll never need to look down.. Because it's only up from there..", I could've said, "the point is, your aspirations are boundless, and once you've experienced fame, you're going to want more of it, and once you're fans have had that shot of happiness, they're going to crave it more and more, and from then on, it's a never-ending journey".
And that's true, music is never ending, I mean look at all the artists that have died, and how their music lives to this day, Jimi Hendrix for example, there isn't a guitarist on earth that wont hear about him at one point in their guitar-career, artists are frozen in time, much like their art, they wont be forgotten, the same applies to modern day artists, Carmel split up 10 years ago, yet Carameldansen is one of the most famous dance tracks in the world.
No, not at all, that was depth fine enough for me to write a counter.
I mean, you can say I'm incorrect, but everything is down to opinion, what I see may not be what you see, what I believe may not be what you believe, difference of opinion is what makes us who we are, but at the same time, I believe difference of opinion when it comes to music, is far to shallow, it's seen as hate or love, and it really don't like it, I wish everyone had a shared opinion of, "this artist is doing what they love, lets respect that, lets look past the musical shell and see the person, not the idol".
And again, there are no errors, I just wanted some response out of you, to pool your opinions with mine so we can properly debate, as opposed to spouting single sentences.
(Fin).
Remember what you said about being a friend now?
The movement in her hips strikes the hour when the poison sets in
How do you wake?
How do you sleep at night?
Remember what you said
Still a better love story than Twilight.
I think 99% of people tl;dr'd my original post, since only you and Skrillex seemed to acknowledge it in any form.
You got that right.
<3
Edit: Also.. I didn't even know there was only a 20'000 character limit on posts, I think I went up to 28k or 23k, not sure, didn't look at it long enough to focus my eyes.
Remember what you said about being a friend now?
The movement in her hips strikes the hour when the poison sets in
How do you wake?
How do you sleep at night?
Remember what you said
tl;dr
oh and btw, sorry but she ugly tbf
etihWecnirP
How I imagine all the people going as far as to say CRJ is ugly:
It's okay to not like... wanna bang her, but come on. Saying she's ugly is just... not normal.
The switch is now OFF.
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