System Builders Guide

[Latisty]

In case you want the information, a 550ti folds about 7k to 9k ppd.

[Alex.L]

Uhm...My brain hurts :S

[Huntlocker]

I'm going to be criticising a bit here. The first thing is that this is slightly outdated, but this is since you haven't updated since january.

The first choice you will have to make is between AMD and Intel. For gaming purposes, there won’t be much of a difference, as long as you get at least a 3GHz dual core. For folding, its less of a wash, since intel is generally better, but only in the $200+ price range. Below that, AMD CPU’s will tend to edge out Intel ones. Here’s a list by price:

Complete and utter bullshit. First of all, performance is NOT MEASURED IN GHZ, NOR CORES. The architecture decided almost everything. An Intel Core i3 2100 (2 cores, 3.1 Ghz) beats even AMD's top end CPU (AMD FX-8150 8-core 3.6Ghz) in unthreaded programs, and the Intel Core i5 2500K (4 cores, 3.4 Ghz) beats the AMD FX-8150 in multithreaded programs, simply because AMD's FX series has a bad architecture. As of now (for all desktops +500$) Intel really beats AMD in almost anything. AMD's APU's (sub-500$ desktops) beat builds with Intel CPU's + Dedicated GPU's, and AMD is even releasing a new and even more powerful generation of APU's right now.

$300+:

• Pretty much any hexacore on Intel’s Sandy Bridge-E platform, but if you are at this price range, you should know what you are doing already

Not for gaming. Extremely few games even use more then 2 cores, which means the last 4 cores would be unused and a waste of money. For anything past 200$ nothing more then an Intel 2500K is needed, with some exceptions.

If you are doing slightly heavy video editing and 3d modeling, get the Intel Core i7 2600K
If you are doing heavy video editing and 3d modeling at a professional level (Larger projects, full 3d landscapes, heavy edits etc) get either the 3960X or an Intel Xeon.
If you are hosting a server or other CPU heavy stuff (EG F@H), get an Intel Xeon. Note that hosting a server at home is NOT recommended unless you have extremely good internet and cheap electricity. If not you will end up paying more then getting a proper host.

For cheap:

1. Artic Cooling Freezer 7 pro
2. Cooler master hyper 212 Plus

The Cooler Master Hyper 212 is the BEST in the sub-30$ price range. No questions asked.

For not cheap:

1. Noctua NH-D14
2. Zalman CNPS9900

Get the Noctua NH-D14. It is the BEST air cooler out there without getting a custom fan. No questions asked.

Closed loop water cooling:

1. Antec Kuhler 920 (what I have)
2. Corsair H70 or H50

Don't even bother. 99% of all closed loop water coolers are beaten by the Noctua NH-D14. Closed loops are also quite hard to mount and take up more space for little gain.

1. If you are going to overclock, make sure the board your getting supports it. (i.e. P67 or Z68 for LGA1155)
2. Look at the ports on the motherboard, and make sure it has what you need.
3. If you are planning on running multiple GPUs, make sure that the motherboards supports it, and that there are at least two slots of space between the PCI-e slots so that you can actually put more than one double wide card in.
4. Make sure the motherboard has the same socket as the CPU

1. Nowadays you should rather get a Z77 MOBO then a Z68 one, simply because the Z77 is newer technology and supports IB without needing to update the BIOS.
3. Most 100$+ MOBO's have more then a normal user needs
4. Note that having multiple GPU's (also known as Crossfire/SLI) is NOT RECOMMENDED. Most GPU's in 2x SLI/CF will suffer heavy microstuttering (your game might be playing at 100FPS, but the way the GPU's work together simply makes it appear like 10-40FPS). The Nvidia 680 in 3x SLI actually has less performance then in 2x SLI (with the current drivers that is). Also remember that getting 2 GPU's won't give you 200% performance, more like 170%. The GPU I have seen that is closest to scaling to 200% is the AMD Radeon HD 7970 (currently AMD's most powerful card), at approx 95% scaling in BF3.
5. Important! I know people that have bought the wrong sockets and hammered their CPU's trying to fit it into the MOBO.

RAM: This is one of the easier components to buy these days, since its so cheap. Generally, just go with any 8GB kit of DDR3-1600 that you can find. In general, you don’t need either faster RAM or more RAM. Anything beyond DDR3-1600, and you will not really notice the difference in everyday usage. Also, if you are going to buy more than 8GB of RAM, you should really have some sort of particular use in mind, otherwise you are just wasting your money.

RAM is going up in price ATM, and since it's so cheap now I highly recommend buying some extra RAM, just because. Very rarely are you ever going to need more then 8Gb (the only program I can think of is Adobe After Effects). And also note that if you are getting a Sandy Bridge Intel CPU, there is absolutely no reason to ever get RAM at a frequency higher then 1333Mhz, simply because SB dosen't support anything higher without changing the values through a slightly complicated proccess. Even if the CPU supports frequencies above 1333Mhz, the difference between 1333Mhz and 1866Mhz RAM in games are between 0.05 and 0.1 FPS.

PSU: The important thing here is not to cheap out. It may be tempting to buy the $50 PSU over the $80 one, but you don’t want the PSU to fail and either have to buy a new PSU or a whole new computer if it damaged your parts. If you go with pretty much anything by corsair, PC power and cooling, or seasonic, you will be fine. To calculate your power usage, and find out what kind of power supply you need, this is a good tool: http://www.thermaltake.outervision.com/. Another thing to note: if you are going to put multiple GPUs in your computer, make sure that not only does the PSU have enough wattage, but that is has enough 6 or 8 pin PCI-e connectors as well.

This is VERY important. Never EVER EVER buy a PSU you don't know the brand, wattage and producer of, and never ever buy a PSU from a bad brand. Generally, Corsair, Cooler Master (ONLY THEIR TOP END SERIES), OCZ, Rosewill and Seasonic (and some more) make good PSU's. A bad quality PSU can:
1. Explode
2. Start burning when you plug it in
3. Fry the rest of the parts. And when I mean fry I mean that it is so bad that it sends the wrong amount of power through the other parts, essentially overloading them and breaking them.
4. Simply not work.

Generally, if your computer has 1 TOP-end GPU (GPU is the part that takes the most power) and some rather expensive other parts 600W is more then enough (in fact, 450-550W should be enough), and if you are using 2 GPU's I recommend at LEAST 650W.

Hard Disk/SSD: Currently, hard disk prices are very high, so if you have a hard drive from an older computer, you might consider using that as a holdover until prices come back down again, which they will. In general, for hard disks, just get whatever capacity you think you will use. For SSDs, you may want to put a HDD in as well for storage of larger items like videos. In terms of brands, for hard disks, it doesn’t really matter that much. However, there is a much bigger difference in the SSD world. If you want the greatest performance, get one of the latest generation SSDs from either Crucial, Intel, or OCZ.

If your old computer has a ''SATA'' connector and not an ''IDE'' (really fat/wide cable) it should work, since IIRC SATA is backwards compatible (EG SATA 2.0 works in a SATA 3.0 slot). HDD's are generally personal preference. I tend to recommend 500Gb to most people, 1Tb if you have ALOT of games, movies, pictures and songs, and 2Tb if you have even more movies and pictures (EG professional photograph or youtube movie maker). If you want to shorten boot (startup) times on your computer I recommend an SSD, even though ATM they are very expensive/gb and they slow down, and after a while become read only (no saving files, only opening files). I generally recommend SSD's for 1200$+ builds, in sizes of 64Gb (OS + small programs only) or 128Gb (some games). I don't recommend getting an OCZ SSD. Even though they are the fastest SSD's, they are the most unrealiable.

Case: This is another area that its tempting to skimp on, but it can have a big effect on how easy the computer is to build, and also on overclocking, since a better case will have lower temperatures. There are two main types of cases that you might consider, ATX full tower and ATX mid tower. A mid tower case will generally be cheaper, smaller and be harder to build in than a full tower case, but those tradeoffs may be worth it if you are not building a machine with multiple large GPUs.
Here’s a list of some pretty good cases

One thing to know about cases:
1. ATX is the size of the motherboard. mATX, ATX ETC. Normal cases are ATX and so are most normal MOBO's.
2. Note that a Full Tower case is extremele large and weigh alot. I recommend a mid-tower to most people, especially if you are going to alot of LAN's.
3. Althought most full tower cases provide more cooling opportunities, a mid tower will be the best for an average person.
4. Space. You need alot of space for a Full Tower. In exchange you have alot of space inside of them, which means you can often fit more GPU's, larger MOBO's, more HDD's etc.

Full tower:

1. Corsair 800D (I have this one)
2. HAF X
3. Silverstone Tejmin 07

IIRc the Haf 932 is also a full tower. The NZXT phantom and NZXT 810 is also half-decent.

Mid tower:

1. Antec 900 ( I have this one too)
2. Corsair 600T
3. HAF 922
4. Antec 300
5. Rosewill Challenger

The HAF 912, the NZXT 410 and the HAF XM are also quite good.

Optical Drive: This one’s pretty simple. If you don’t want to watch blu-rays, get any SATA DVD burner that you can find. If you want to play, blu-rays, find a blu-ray reader that comes with software so that you can watch blu-rays, since some drives don’t come with any software and you would have to buy the software yourself.

A cheap 20$ OD will fit for 95% of people. If you have a desire for blu-ray movies and more advanced CD's it might be worth it to invest slightly more in a good quality one.

Operating system: This will be Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit for pretty much everyone, unless you have a special case that calls for another operating system, in which case you should already know what operating system you are going to use.

Windows 7 Home Premium is good for 99% of all people. EXTREMELY FEW will ever use Windows 7 Professional or Ultimate. A good alternative to Windows, if you are on an extremely low budget is to get Linux. It's free and has many customization options, although it can't run very many games.

GPU: Along with the CPU, one of the most important components in the system. You have a few things to consider here. First, are you going to go with one GPU, or multiple GPUs. Then you have to consider if you are going to go with ATI or Nvidia. Note: if you are going to do F@H, you are much better off getting an Nvidia GPU at this point, but this may change in the future. Another note: for the most part, GPU memory doesn’t matter much past about 1GB these days, unless you either have a 30” monitor, or you are going to use multiple monitors.

I don't recommend getting multiple GPU's, because of microstuttering (mentioned above). Also, ATI was bought by AMD a while ago so I believe they are called AMD now. And yes, IIRC F@H was made for Nvidia GPU's so if you are using the GPU to fold a Nvidia will be better. And yes, GPU memory (also known as Vram, not to be confused with RAM) dosen't really matter past 1Gb unless the resolution is high or with multiple monitors. Also note that a GPU uses alot of wattage.

For $125:

• Radeon 6790

For $180:

• GeForce GTX 560 (not ti)

For $230:

• GeForce 560 ti (a Radeon 6950 would work here as well, but if you are doing F@H, it will be worse, and this is also true with the rest of the price ranges)

For $340:

• GeForce GTX 570

For $500:

• GeForce GTX 580 (though, at this point, you are getting really diminishing returns.

List is outdated. Here's a slightly more recent one:

1000$+:
Nvidia 690 (I don't recommend anybody to use this much on a GPU, since the 680 runs all games on max, and so does the 7970).

500$:
Nvidia 680. If you can, get one with the Twin Frozr III fan at a slightly higher price.

450$:
AMD Radeon 7970 (IIRC you also get 3 games for free at select stores (newegg))

440$:
Nvidia 670 (almost as powerful as the 7970, more powerful then the 7950. Nvidia so good for folding).

400$:
AMD Radeon 7950

350$:
AMD Radeon 7870

300$:
Nvidia 560Ti 448 Version

250$:
AMD Radeon 7850

200$:
AMD Radeon 6950/Nvidia 560Ti

150$:
AMD Radeon 6850

This list WILL change, since Nvidia is releasing new GPU's right now and AMD is reducing their prices because of Nvidia.

[Wolframium]

I'm going to be criticising a bit here. The first thing is that this is slightly outdated, but this is since you haven't updated since january.

True, I'll update it this weekend when I get the chance.

Complete and utter bullshit. First of all, performance is NOT MEASURED IN GHZ, NOR CORES. The architecture decided almost everything. An Intel Core i3 2100 (2 cores, 3.1 Ghz) beats even AMD's top end CPU (AMD FX-8150 8-core 3.6Ghz) in unthreaded programs, and the Intel Core i5 2500K (4 cores, 3.4 Ghz) beats the AMD FX-8150 in multithreaded programs, simply because AMD's FX series has a bad architecture. As of now (for all desktops +500$) Intel really beats AMD in almost anything. AMD's APU's (sub-500$ desktops) beat builds with Intel CPU's + Dedicated GPU's, and AMD is even releasing a new and even more powerful generation of APU's right now.
Not for gaming. Extremely few games even use more then 2 cores, which means the last 4 cores would be unused and a waste of money. For anything past 200$ nothing more then an Intel 2500K is needed, with some exceptions.

There is some truth in your statements, but I disagree that its utter bullshit. I am very well aware that performance is not simple cores/GHz, and that performance per clock is very real, THUS WHY I RECCOMENDED THE 2500k, which has two to four cores less than competing AMD solutions. Also, I disagree that AMD beats intel on the low end, below the 2500k, especially for folding, which this is about. If we were talking gaming, sure, a better Intel dual core would beat a quad core AMD, but certainly not for folding, and it wouldn't beat it by much either.

If you are doing slightly heavy video editing and 3d modeling, get the Intel Core i7 2600K
If you are doing heavy video editing and 3d modeling at a professional level (Larger projects, full 3d landscapes, heavy edits etc) get either the 3960X or an Intel Xeon.
If you are hosting a server or other CPU heavy stuff (EG F@H), get an Intel Xeon. Note that hosting a server at home is NOT recommended unless you have extremely good internet and cheap electricity. If not you will end up paying more then getting a proper host.

True to the first two statements, wrong on the last. In general, a Xeon is a dumb idea for folding, for multiple reasons. They cannot usually be overclocked by much, they tend to be much more expensive than the i5/i7 processors they replace, and the only advantage they have is if you want to make a 2P server, in which case AMD makes much more sense since you can just get a 4P Opteron 6128 server for the same price and get better performance.

The Cooler Master Hyper 212 is the BEST in the sub-30$ price range. No questions asked.

Agreed in general, I just like options.

Get the Noctua NH-D14. It is the BEST air cooler out there without getting a custom fan. No questions asked.

Once again, agreed, but its expensive.

Don't even bother. 99% of all closed loop water coolers are beaten by the Noctua NH-D14. Closed loops are also quite hard to mount and take up more space for little gain.

Here is where I DON'T agree. Unless you have a very big case, the Noctua can be very hard to mount since its so damn big. Even in large cases, you sometimes have to worry about the clearance between the motherboard and the case. The closed loop coolers are generally very easy to mount as long as you have a 120mm fan mount somewhere. Plus, you don't really have to worry about clearance, and they are generally very quiet.

1. Nowadays you should rather get a Z77 MOBO then a Z68 one, simply because the Z77 is newer technology and supports IB without needing to update the BIOS.
3. Most 100$+ MOBO's have more then a normal user needs
4. Note that having multiple GPU's (also known as Crossfire/SLI) is NOT RECOMMENDED. Most GPU's in 2x SLI/CF will suffer heavy microstuttering (your game might be playing at 100FPS, but the way the GPU's work together simply makes it appear like 10-40FPS). The Nvidia 680 in 3x SLI actually has less performance then in 2x SLI (with the current drivers that is). Also remember that getting 2 GPU's won't give you 200% performance, more like 170%. The GPU I have seen that is closest to scaling to 200% is the AMD Radeon HD 7970 (currently AMD's most powerful card), at approx 95% scaling in BF3.
5. Important! I know people that have bought the wrong sockets and hammered their CPU's trying to fit it into the MOBO.

1. I'll update the OP
3. In general, yes, though I'd put it more around $120 or so, unless you are going Sandy Bridge-E of course.
4. Yes, I know microstuttering can happen, but I've noticed that both Nvidia and AMD drivers have done a lot to correct it lately. Actually, in most cases, Tri-SLI 680s will still be better than regular SLI, and anyway, if you want to spend $1500 on JUST the GPUs in your computer, I'd hope you know what you're doing anyway.
5. Yeah, you generally don't need a hammer.



[QUOTE=ℍuntlocker;2026353]RAM is going up in price ATM, and since it's so cheap now I highly recommend buying some extra RAM, just because. Very rarely are you ever going to need more then 8Gb (the only program I can think of is Adobe After Effects). And also note that if you are getting a Sandy Bridge Intel CPU, there is absolutely no reason to ever get RAM at a frequency higher then 1333Mhz, simply because SB dosen't support anything higher without changing the values through a slightly complicated proccess. Even if the CPU supports frequencies above 1333Mhz, the difference between 1333Mhz and 1866Mhz RAM in games are between 0.05 and 0.1 FPS.[/quote

Once again, depends on what you are doing. F@H can sometimes like higher clocked RAM, and Sandy Bridge CAN actually easily support frequencies beyone 1333MHz, even if it isn't in the spec, due to XMP and other things. But yeah, RAM speed doesn't matter much, though I'd go 1600MHz simply because its so close in price to 1333MHz RAM. Also, VMware can easily use 32GB of RAM at times, so it certainly is possible to use a lot more.

This is VERY important. Never EVER EVER buy a PSU you don't know the brand, wattage and producer of, and never ever buy a PSU from a bad brand. Generally, Corsair, Cooler Master (ONLY THEIR TOP END SERIES), OCZ, Rosewill and Seasonic (and some more) make good PSU's. A bad quality PSU can:
1. Explode
2. Start burning when you plug it in
3. Fry the rest of the parts. And when I mean fry I mean that it is so bad that it sends the wrong amount of power through the other parts, essentially overloading them and breaking them.
4. Simply not work.

Generally, if your computer has 1 TOP-end GPU (GPU is the part that takes the most power) and some rather expensive other parts 600W is more then enough (in fact, 450-550W should be enough), and if you are using 2 GPU's I recommend at LEAST 650W.

Just make sure you are getting one with enough 6/8 pin PCI-e power connectors if you go SLI/Crossfire.

If your old computer has a ''SATA'' connector and not an ''IDE'' (really fat/wide cable) it should work, since IIRC SATA is backwards compatible (EG SATA 2.0 works in a SATA 3.0 slot). HDD's are generally personal preference. I tend to recommend 500Gb to most people, 1Tb if you have ALOT of games, movies, pictures and songs, and 2Tb if you have even more movies and pictures (EG professional photograph or youtube movie maker). If you want to shorten boot (startup) times on your computer I recommend an SSD, even though ATM they are very expensive/gb and they slow down, and after a while become read only (no saving files, only opening files). I generally recommend SSD's for 1200$+ builds, in sizes of 64Gb (OS + small programs only) or 128Gb (some games). I don't recommend getting an OCZ SSD. Even though they are the fastest SSD's, they are the most unrealiable.

Yes, SATA is backwards compatible. As to the HDD size, I tend to go bigger because of pricing. A 500GB drive is $80, a 1TB one is $100, and a 2TB one is $120, so unlesss you are really pinching pennies, it usually is nice to go at least 1TB these days. Also, my thing is that you have NO idea what SSDs are like until you really use one. Its not just boot time, its EVERYTHING. If you asked me what is the ONE upgrade that would make a PC feel pretty much new again, it would be an SSD. As to the slowing down/read only thing you talk about, thats not really much of a problem with current SSDs. New SSDs have the TRIM command to reduce performance hits, and even at their worst state they have MUCH better performance than an HDD. Further, the read only thing will only happen if you are pretty much doing very large writes to your SSD 24/7. Modern SSDs have pretty agressive wear leveling algorithms and very little write amplification. I've had good luck in the past with OCZ, maybe its just you?

One thing to know about cases:
1. ATX is the size of the motherboard. mATX, ATX ETC. Normal cases are ATX and so are most normal MOBO's.
2. Note that a Full Tower case is extremele large and weigh alot. I recommend a mid-tower to most people, especially if you are going to alot of LAN's.
3. Althought most full tower cases provide more cooling opportunities, a mid tower will be the best for an average person.
4. Space. You need alot of space for a Full Tower. In exchange you have alot of space inside of them, which means you can often fit more GPU's, larger MOBO's, more HDD's etc.
IIRc the Haf 932 is also a full tower. The NZXT phantom and NZXT 810 is also half-decent.

The HAF 912, the NZXT 410 and the HAF XM are also quite good.

Yep, midtower is good for most people, though I doubt anyone here will want to bring it to a LAN.

A cheap 20$ OD will fit for 95% of people. If you have a desire for blu-ray movies and more advanced CD's it might be worth it to invest slightly more in a good quality one.


Windows 7 Home Premium is good for 99% of all people. EXTREMELY FEW will ever use Windows 7 Professional or Ultimate. A good alternative to Windows, if you are on an extremely low budget is to get Linux. It's free and has many customization options, although it can't run very many games.

True for windows, but I'd argue against Linux. It still is confusing for most people, most applications they know don't work, and it can be very hard to troubleshoot. (Note, I do a LOT of linux stuff, so its not that I don't like linux)

I don't recommend getting multiple GPU's, because of microstuttering (mentioned above). Also, ATI was bought by AMD a while ago so I believe they are called AMD now. And yes, IIRC F@H was made for Nvidia GPU's so if you are using the GPU to fold a Nvidia will be better. And yes, GPU memory (also known as Vram, not to be confused with RAM) dosen't really matter past 1Gb unless the resolution is high or with multiple monitors. Also note that a GPU uses alot of wattage.
List is outdated. Here's a slightly more recent one:

1000$+:
Nvidia 690 (I don't recommend anybody to use this much on a GPU, since the 680 runs all games on max, and so does the 7970).

500$:
Nvidia 680. If you can, get one with the Twin Frozr III fan at a slightly higher price.

450$:
AMD Radeon 7970 (IIRC you also get 3 games for free at select stores (newegg))

440$:
Nvidia 670 (almost as powerful as the 7970, more powerful then the 7950. Nvidia so good for folding).

400$:
AMD Radeon 7950

350$:
AMD Radeon 7870

300$:
Nvidia 560Ti 448 Version

250$:
AMD Radeon 7850

200$:
AMD Radeon 6950/Nvidia 560Ti

150$:
AMD Radeon 6850

This list WILL change, since Nvidia is releasing new GPU's right now and AMD is reducing their prices because of Nvidia.

I covered microstuttering above, as said. Yep, VRAM doesn't matter that much, but I tend to do multiple huge monitors, so it matters for me. Anyway, the basic thing is that a lot of my decisions here were covered by the fact that this is in the F@H section, I wanted to make a guide that would be pretty good for the normal user but also max out PPD without making any really large sacrifices. That's why I chose the CPUs and GPUs that I did, though if it were a non-folding rig I might have made different choices.

[Huntlocker]

Also, my thing is that you have NO idea what SSDs are like until you really use one. Its not just boot time, its EVERYTHING. If you asked me what is the ONE upgrade that would make a PC feel pretty much new again, it would be an SSD. As to the slowing down/read only thing you talk about, thats not really much of a problem with current SSDs. New SSDs have the TRIM command to reduce performance hits, and even at their worst state they have MUCH better performance than an HDD. Further, the read only thing will only happen if you are pretty much doing very large writes to your SSD 24/7. Modern SSDs have pretty agressive wear leveling algorithms and very little write amplification. I've had good luck in the past with OCZ, maybe its just you?

I actually do have an SSD (Crucial M4 64Gb), and I do see a small difference (note: small), but I don't feel it is worth the 100$. I do realise that slowing down SSD's mostly occur on older versions, but it will still occur if you use the drive alot. And yeah, the read-only thing is a slight overstatement since it most likely won't occur on newer SSD's used in regular computers, but it can still occur. And OCZ products are nice, and their SSD's are quite reliable, but from what I have seen they have a notably higher failure rate then, lets say the Crucial M4. The good thing is their high speed though.

[Mfdom]

I want a RAM with sixty bagagillion megabytes

[skibå]

You should update the thread seeing as a lot of new hardware has been released since you wrote this.
Also deserves a sticky.

[Wolframium]

You should update the thread seeing as a lot of new hardware has been released since you wrote this.
Also deserves a sticky.

Will update it soon.

[Urahara]

Don't forget to update the prices, they've declined.